Martin Mansergh, junior minister for Finance, and I had a very lively discussion on the telly last night. We were, of course, talking about the economy. He was a nice man but he was completely unprepared.
Our lovely interviewer Noel said we’d just have a nice discussion but
it quickly turned into a row. I suggested that the government’s
inaction was a dangerous decision and that it had far reaching
consequences. “Nero fiddled while Rome burned and so is this
government. ” Paraphrasing it I basically said this was
an emergency and that we were at war for our economic survial. It was
time for unity. The time for party politics is over. We all need to
come together, start talking to the social partners and make cuts
across the board. Why isn’t the Financial Regulator organisation in the dustbin? All senior bank management still not gone?
People are frightened – they’re losing their jobs, emigrating, huge
numbers of small businesses are failing with banks refusing to make
loans…They need some hope.” I asked him loads of questions and asked
him what they were doing about it. Why weren’t they asking for help
from the extraordinarily intelligent experts we have in this country? Why weren’t they communicating a plan to the people?
He was furious and completely disagreed that people were losing their
jobs in large numbers and emigrating to find work. Some of this was cut from the programme including his statement that ”My daughter is
going to Australia for the experience” She was not forced to emigrate.
(One of the lucky few, I imagine who can afford that kind of trip!)
I then pointed out that it was ridiculous that according to
Wednesday’s papers a bank (that we have now recapitalised) refused to
give a €3,000 loan to a business – with a substantial amount of cash
behind it – to save a dozen or more jobs. He implied that many of the
small businesses going out of business are not worth saving. (Wow!!!!!
The lifeblood of this country is not worth saving?). Check out the stats on insolvencyjournal.ie. Things are getting much,much worse but it’s not being reported.
Apparently, I was also a “populist” and he could not believe that the
Irish Times employed someone with views like mine! When did populism – listening to the people – become a dirty word in Fianna Fail?
I do not think Mr Mansergh – who is a highly intelligent person with
an excellent track record on the North – likes to be questioned about
anything. In my experience, he is an elitist who lives in a rarefied
world. He does not think citizens should have a voice or that
journalists have a right to ask hard questions and expect answers. He
also way out of his depth in finance and seems to have little
understanding of the economic issues we now face. Does this frighten
you? It sure as hell frightens me.. who is running the country?
At the end of the interview, he stormed off the set knocking over his
water saying he could not believe I worked for the Irish Times. For
more fun from this week’s experience see the post Students’ advice for the
government.
If you are not extremely angry about what is going on then you should be. Ireland will be bankrupt in about 12 months. We are burning through about €1 billion or so a week. Internationally, Ireland Inc. is viewed as corrupt country where cronyism is rife and that’s accurate. Are you happy with that reputation? I’m not. It’s embarrassing. We ALL have to inform ourselves about the FACTS and then take action – quickly.
Popularity: 99% [?]
Hi Margaret,
I watched your appearance on the BBC’s Hearts and Minds and would like to compliment you on your well thought arguments.
Well I have no doubt as to the intelligence of Martin Mansergh on certain issues, he has a clear difficulty in communicating his view point on the economy and there was a vast gulf in the quality of debate put forward by both him and yourself.
His point on you expressing populist opinion on government is, well, aptly put a bit of a joke. This populist argument is something I have heard used by other FF politicians in recent weeks as a part justification for their actions re the economy.
There is a clear lack of direction re this economic situation and whilst I appreciate the efforts of government, in what are unprecedented circumstances, it is obvious that some of them are out of their depth. They have failed to get tough on senior bankers, failed to implement effective budgetary measures, failed to send out clear messages etc. All related and all of which are solvable by a clear strategy. Yes, the nature of things is that conditions will change both nationally and globally over the coming months and years meaning that we will need to have a flexible approach to matters. Such flexibility may means injecting capital into banks and so be it, BUT in return we need to see something back. We need to see lending to small businesses; we need a degree of accountability from bankers etc. Irish people for the most are educated. Martin Mansergh points made on the show would suggest otherwise. I would like to think most people realises the impact of the Stg/Euro currency fluctuation on trade.
The EU President Jean-Claude Trichet gave a very good interview to George Lee on RTE news yesterday where he stated that yes Ireland faces sever economic challenges but it is something that we can and will overcome just like the rest of the economies all over Europe will overcome.
This leads on to my final point which is the media coverage of this current economic crisis. I think we need, and the media has a responsibility here, to be careful to distinguish between despair and hope.
I have no problem that the media is highlighting property fuelled banking institutions, the loans of 100’s of millions for share purchases with no security except that of the share price itself! Where there is wrong doing and reputational damage we need to highlight it in the media and ensure the need for accountability.
However we need to realise that although we are in an economic crisis, we are by no means completely bankrupt as a country. This is not a national crisis but a global one – every other country is suffering from downturns yet I see very little reference to it in the media. For every Waterford Crystal and Dell I’m sure there are similar companies in Germany, Spain and France. We need to look at certain elements of Mr Trichet conversation with George Lee. The man remained positive on the Irish economy and offered hope despite George’s best efforts of doom merchanting!
Ireland has undergone much change in the last 10 – 15 years, change which has been generally good to us, we are now more educated, more travelled and we have infrastructure on par with the best in the world. However also in tandem the last 10 -15 years has seen us become more materialistic, more argumentive and less friendly as people. We have got ahead of ourselves and lost many of our old values, values which much us the envy of much of the world. I hope Irish people are now prepared to take a step back and get back to a sense of community spirit and togetherness to overcome this current period in our nations life.
This is quite a long comment so I’ll conclude; let’s deal with issues by putting together a group of people which can serve as advisers to our Cabinet. A group which is publicly known that includes national & international economists, union leaders, business leaders, bankers, health experts and other stakeholders. Individuals who are publicly respected and have no political agendas. Let get them around a table and thrash out solutions. The time for politics is over we need solutions that the people of Ireland will buy into and get behind 100% to show we are a nation once again!
Posted by Enda Gaffney | February 27, 2009, 2:52 amMorning Margaret
Sorry Margaret but I have to say that you were brilliant on the BBC’s
Hearts and Minds last night. You said what I think 85% of the irish
population want to say to there current government…
As someone brought up in the northern unionist tradition who now lives in
County Meath I have a detached view of the going on down here.
But I have to say that current goings on down here are incredible. The
daily revelations and ‘handling’ of the financial crisis and scandals are
amazing. Coupled with the fact that the Northern Bank Court Case in Cork at
the moment keeps mentioning Mr Phil Flynn former head of Bank of Scotland
(Ireland) and VHI and you have to really ask is this fiction? Surely it is?
It maybe the stuff for great literature in the years to come but sod that.
People are going to the wall, beating the wife, taking to drink and drugs and suicide over
what is happening. Not good Karma.
We need more journalist like you! Please keep going.
Your the best.
Alan Jones
ps I’m living in exile as I’ve had enough of my own political/economic
class up in the North. They did sod all last year and this year….?
Posted by alan jones | February 27, 2009, 10:14 amMartin Masergh cam out of that encounter better than you did. Populist soap-box rhetoric was an entirely accurate summation of your contribution to the debate.
Posted by Anon | February 27, 2009, 10:52 amHi Margaret,
Wow, some interesting extra information regarding the MM debate. For him to deny that people were losing their jobs is atonishing. I hope that Brian Cowen has the good political judgement to keep him with a junior ministerial position and in the background regarding our economic situation. I don’t doubt his ability on other matters but with the economy he is clearly out of his depth and I dread to think of him representing the country on any platform bigger than Hearts and Minds! (not that there is anything wrong with H & M)
This country needs a ‘think tank’ group of experts to advise the government. We are dealing with a crisis that is off such a magnitude that no politician or party is equipped to deal with.
Front page of todays Irish Times – Eammon Gilmore comments on the Taoiseach spurning offers of a private one to one on the economy. WTF – This country is in crisis and I would like to think that our Taoiseach could afford some time to the opposition leaders in an environment that is away from the public eye of Dail Eireann. This is utterly disgraceful and surprises me as I thought Mr Cowen would have the intellect to hold such meetings.
Also Ange Merkel comments that Germany would be open to assisting countries like Ireland if we have a clear picture on our matters. To quote ‘It all depends whether we are able to speak openly and honestly about the situation, beacause there are alot of rumours flying around.’
Romours fying around? Hardly surprising given the performance of our government in dealing with this situation.
Lets get a special advisory board set up comprising of various experts to deal with this crisis and we can show the Irish people and Europe that we have our house in order.
Posted by Enda Gaffney | February 27, 2009, 12:32 pmThere’s a discussion of the programme on politics.ie, where at least some contributors are not wildly impressed by either of the participants.
http://www.politics.ie/fianna-fail/49072-martin-manseragh-bbc-yesterday-4.html#post1460038
Posted by Schuhart | February 27, 2009, 3:40 pmHello Margaret,
I watched your debate with Martin Mansergh junior minister for Finance on Youtube, I think your performance was excellent. I wish we had more strong and brave journalists in Ireland to tackle these arrogant people running our country done the tubes,
Fair play to you Margaret, I admire you.
Niall Kinahan
Posted by Niall Kinahan | February 28, 2009, 7:08 pmWell done Margaret, your facial expressions spoke volumes!
One tiny spelling mistake above…
“He’s <—
also way out of his depth in finance and seems “
Posted by Anon | February 28, 2009, 11:02 pm1/3/09
One of the funniest ‘interviews’ i have seen recently. I feared Margaret would be wpunded by Martin’s flailing arms gestulicating widely. She got stuck in as much as she could though as the pitch and shrieking tone of Martin;s voice rose I began to fear for his safety. How can you enter a dialogue with ssomeone liie that; still you did try’
Posted by anthony jordan | March 1, 2009, 9:38 pmAt the risk of stating or repeating the glaringly obvious, but Martin Mansergh is a nutjob of gargantuan proportions. This quite an impressive fit of douchebaggery. This interview serves as a timely reminder that our nation is b*llixed for as long as the Fianna Fail Party maintain power.
Posted by David O'Rourke | March 2, 2009, 7:05 pmHi Margaret,
You hit the nail on the head during
your discussion with Mansergh.His
performance confirmed that Goverment is so totally out of touch and out of depth.In fact it
would be true to say the majority
of politicians in Ireland fall into
this category and consequently we’re screwed,and we have every right to feel genuinly worried.
When are we ever going to hear public figures give straight answers to straight questions ?
Your ‘debate’ highlighted a typical
politician’s response to the crisis
we’re in,and what you said is true,
we have had enough…..Time for real change.
Well done on a great piece of work,
Regards,
Brendan Waters.
P.S. To be fair to Mansergh,he did
manage to knock the water over by himself.
Posted by Brendan Waters | March 2, 2009, 8:09 pmCongratulations Margaret – you tackled him head on and didn’t let his foostering or blustering get in the way. I think you did an excellent job of exposing his lack of knowledge and clarity on the subject. I’m looking forward to seeing you go head to head with many others.
Posted by fiona mcgoran | March 3, 2009, 4:17 pmMargaret,
The country is going through the 5 stages of grief as we mourn the loss of the Celtic Tiger.
1. Denial and isolation
Look at the inaction of the government, the Financial Regulator and the banks during the period from mid 2007 (when the credit crunch emerged) to the present day.
2. Anger
Look at the reaction of Mansergh, Dempsey, Lenihan and Cowen when faced with the “populist” opinions that you put to him in your interview.
3. Bargainning
The dithering of the government as they try to govern by consensus with the so called “social partners” instead of taking the tough decisions required of true leaders.
4. Depression
I think we’re all agreed there’s going to be plenty of this about in the weeks, months and years to come.
5. Acceptance
Sadly, whilst the majority of us have accepted our loss, the government’s rigid refusal to accept that our current position is anything other than part of an international economic blight demonstrates that they remain out of touch with reality and have not yet come to terms with the country’s loss.
The question is though, in the absence of an opportunity at the ballot box (the government’s never going to call a general election), what can we do?
Patrick
Posted by Patrick Wilkinson | March 6, 2009, 9:23 amDidn’t see the debate. Did you see the latest comments from Moodys and Fitch? According to them Ireland is by no means the worst in the EU and our Governement are positively the best in taking decisive action. It is indeed becoming very popular (or is it populist?) to think tha tIreland is a complete basket case and all the fault is with FF. How refreshing to hear these positive views from objective analysts who know what they are talking about.
Posted by Duke of Marmalaxde | March 6, 2009, 12:55 pmI meant JP Morgan not Moodys, sorry.
Posted by Duke of Marmalaxde | March 6, 2009, 12:56 pmMargaret,
I just saw the “discussion” on YouTube. You were excellent and I think a significant number of people agree with your views. The government’s failure to confront reality and refusal to accept any responsibility (for the inflation in public spending plus lack of effective regulation) in contributing to Ireland’s particularly severe crisis, is truly scary. A “crisis” has to be addressed with urgency, conviction and usually, unprecedented measures. To date, we have seen no evidence that our leaders realise this and the fact that they procrastinate and constantly hide behind “global factors” is denial at its worst. To be fair, the opposition have been less than impressive in their behaviour and you are correct, a cross – party approach is needed – in fact it’s now an imperative given the decisions required.
On the positive side, there’s a unique opportunity to get our act together by taking some tough decisions and rooting out croneyism for good .
Keep up the excellent commentary!
Posted by Paul Murphy | March 6, 2009, 2:52 pmMargaret,
Seems there is some denial in evidence among some posters on here. To quote Enda Gaffney – “we have infrastructure on par with the best in the world.” While his comments seem intelligent for the most part, this is a ridiculous statement.
Has Enda ever travelled on the continent? We have a new Luas (2 lines which don’t connect), unreliable buses (with an indecipherable non digitised timetable system) and some diesel trains. And that’s it. As long as people like Enda continue to deny the reality of our situation then it will never be rectified.
Get it straight – A large part of our problem is that our infrastructure is third world.
Posted by David Gleeson | March 7, 2009, 10:17 amLooked at the YouTube. That was great crack. That guy shouldn’t be let out.
All the same I think your points were a bit simplistic and populist.
Let’s get a sense of reality here. The Debt/GDP ratio of this country was 95% at the beginning of the 90′s. It is currently 110% in Italy. It was 40% in Ireland at the end of 2008. Okay we are due to add an unacceptable 12.5% this year but we have still huge headroom and we are still rated AAA. I’m with JP Morgan, we should not panic here. This is not Armageddon unless we talk ourselves into it. The banks are a very unfortunate complication but worst case scenario we would need about 10% of GDP to bail them out.
Posted by Duke of Marmalade | March 7, 2009, 3:15 pmyou should get a medal for putting up with that without resorting to violence.
seriously.
Posted by james mccarthy | August 29, 2009, 4:02 pm